Comments on: Oracle/Google: the patents and the implications http://carlodaffara.conecta.it/oraclegoogle-the-patents-and-the-implications/ Open source software-based business models research Sun, 19 May 2013 23:16:35 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: fax2email http://carlodaffara.conecta.it/oraclegoogle-the-patents-and-the-implications/comment-page-1/#comment-35529 fax2email Tue, 19 Jul 2011 07:13:01 +0000 http://carlodaffara.conecta.it/?p=478#comment-35529 Is it in the content output by javac that is then converted by dx? Does that mean that Oracle claims some copyright on the .class files any developer makes because they contain something included by the javac or it’s runtime? Is it in the content output by javac that is then converted by dx? Does that mean that Oracle claims some copyright on the .class files any developer makes because they contain something included by the javac or it’s runtime?

]]>
By: Oracle vs. Open Source? – Maemst Blog http://carlodaffara.conecta.it/oraclegoogle-the-patents-and-the-implications/comment-page-1/#comment-15163 Oracle vs. Open Source? – Maemst Blog Sun, 05 Sep 2010 20:49:35 +0000 http://carlodaffara.conecta.it/?p=478#comment-15163 [...] gibt es nicht“) , Software-Patent-Gegner Florian Müller („ich habe es immer gewusst“) sowie Business-Model-Kenner Carlo Dafara (pragmatische Detailanalyse) verfasst. Interessanterweise zeigen diese Kommentare deutlich auf, dass kein klares „Oracle vs. [...] [...] gibt es nicht“) , Software-Patent-Gegner Florian Müller („ich habe es immer gewusst“) sowie Business-Model-Kenner Carlo Dafara (pragmatische Detailanalyse) verfasst. Interessanterweise zeigen diese Kommentare deutlich auf, dass kein klares „Oracle vs. [...]

]]>
By: eduardo drake http://carlodaffara.conecta.it/oraclegoogle-the-patents-and-the-implications/comment-page-1/#comment-15055 eduardo drake Thu, 02 Sep 2010 05:25:27 +0000 http://carlodaffara.conecta.it/?p=478#comment-15055 For a detailed claim analysis, check out the upcoming webinar: Will Oracle's Java Patents Take Down Google's Android Platform? See www.sunlightresearch.com for details and registration information. For a detailed claim analysis, check out the upcoming webinar: Will Oracle’s Java Patents Take Down Google’s Android Platform? See http://www.sunlightresearch.com for details and registration information.

]]>
By: Debatte: Oracle vs. Open Source? Das Open-Source-Entwicklungsmodell auf dem Prüfstand » t3n News http://carlodaffara.conecta.it/oraclegoogle-the-patents-and-the-implications/comment-page-1/#comment-15012 Debatte: Oracle vs. Open Source? Das Open-Source-Entwicklungsmodell auf dem Prüfstand » t3n News Wed, 01 Sep 2010 12:59:58 +0000 http://carlodaffara.conecta.it/?p=478#comment-15012 [...] gibt es nicht“) , Software-Patent-Gegner Florian Müller („ich habe es immer gewusst“) sowie Business-Model-Kenner Carlo Dafara (pragmatische Detailanalyse) verfasst. Interessanterweise zeigen diese Kommentare deutlich auf, dass kein klares „Oracle vs. [...] [...] gibt es nicht“) , Software-Patent-Gegner Florian Müller („ich habe es immer gewusst“) sowie Business-Model-Kenner Carlo Dafara (pragmatische Detailanalyse) verfasst. Interessanterweise zeigen diese Kommentare deutlich auf, dass kein klares „Oracle vs. [...]

]]>
By: Me, myself and I http://carlodaffara.conecta.it/oraclegoogle-the-patents-and-the-implications/comment-page-1/#comment-14875 Me, myself and I Fri, 27 Aug 2010 23:38:22 +0000 http://carlodaffara.conecta.it/?p=478#comment-14875 I briefly looked at the patents. I guess Google will invalidate all of them in separate cases by presenting prior art even before the Oracle vs. Google case gets going. I briefly looked at the patents. I guess Google will invalidate all of them in separate cases by presenting prior art even before the Oracle vs. Google case gets going.

]]>
By: Digital Society » Blog Archive » Oracle, Google, Patents, & Open Source Software http://carlodaffara.conecta.it/oraclegoogle-the-patents-and-the-implications/comment-page-1/#comment-14688 Digital Society » Blog Archive » Oracle, Google, Patents, & Open Source Software Tue, 24 Aug 2010 14:59:26 +0000 http://carlodaffara.conecta.it/?p=478#comment-14688 [...] Daffara, Oracle/Google: the patents and the implications & Oracle/Google: the strategy behind Sun, Oracle and the OSS [...] [...] Daffara, Oracle/Google: the patents and the implications & Oracle/Google: the strategy behind Sun, Oracle and the OSS [...]

]]>
By: The Oracle-Google Mess: A Question – Are Any of the Patents Tied to a Specific Machine? – Updated 4Xs: Google Speaks | The Online Blog http://carlodaffara.conecta.it/oraclegoogle-the-patents-and-the-implications/comment-page-1/#comment-14650 The Oracle-Google Mess: A Question – Are Any of the Patents Tied to a Specific Machine? – Updated 4Xs: Google Speaks | The Online Blog Mon, 23 Aug 2010 21:43:31 +0000 http://carlodaffara.conecta.it/?p=478#comment-14650 [...] not the only one. Carlo Daffara has the patents Oracle is relying on listed with helpful links here. Groklaw member Celtic_hackr went through them and sees none that are tied to any specific machine. [...] [...] not the only one. Carlo Daffara has the patents Oracle is relying on listed with helpful links here. Groklaw member Celtic_hackr went through them and sees none that are tied to any specific machine. [...]

]]>
By: The Oracle-Google Mess: A Question – Are Any of the Patents Tied to a Specific Machine? | Save Android http://carlodaffara.conecta.it/oraclegoogle-the-patents-and-the-implications/comment-page-1/#comment-14478 The Oracle-Google Mess: A Question – Are Any of the Patents Tied to a Specific Machine? | Save Android Thu, 19 Aug 2010 19:05:34 +0000 http://carlodaffara.conecta.it/?p=478#comment-14478 [...] Daffara has the patents Oracle is relying on listed with helpful links here. Groklaw member Celtic_hackr went through them and sees none that are tied to any specific machine. [...] [...] Daffara has the patents Oracle is relying on listed with helpful links here. Groklaw member Celtic_hackr went through them and sees none that are tied to any specific machine. [...]

]]>
By: Kevin Purcell http://carlodaffara.conecta.it/oraclegoogle-the-patents-and-the-implications/comment-page-1/#comment-14326 Kevin Purcell Mon, 16 Aug 2010 23:24:38 +0000 http://carlodaffara.conecta.it/?p=478#comment-14326 You say: "Well, it is wrong. Wrong because Google did not copied Java – and actually never mention Java anywhere. In fact, the Android SDK produced Dalvik (not Java) bytecodes, and the decoding and execution pattern is quite different (and one of the reasons why older implementations of Dalvik were so slow – they were made to conserve memory bandwidth, that is quite limited in cell phone chipsets)." Java is mentioned in the documentation but just as the "Java Programming Language" as in the name of the book that specifies it independently of the class libraries. More importantly, I think part of the complication that many people have ignored (included yourself) is the toolchain used to build Android SDK "apps" does include the Sun/Oracle javac compiler. The JDK must be installed to build Android applications. The .class files output by the Sun javac compiler are then "translated" or "cross-compiled" by the dx application to Dalvik VM bytecodes in a .dex file which has the same functionality as a class file but the bytecode is Dalvik bytecode and the format is different. The Dalvik VM then executes those .dex files in the context of Google's Apache Harmony derived class library (which of course is also in .dex form). An important question is exactly where do Oracle see a copyright violation? Remember this part is not trademark or patent violations. Is it in this toolchain? But Google doesn't distribute the JDK so it's not there. Is it in the content output by javac that is then converted by dx? Does that mean that Oracle claims some copyright on the .class files any developer makes because they contain something included by the javac or it's runtime? That seems like a very odd claim for a compiler especially a GPLed one (see below) Does Oracle somehow believe that developers can't manipulate the .class files that they generate with the JDK? How can they do that without a EULA or other contract which Google never signed. The GPL 2 which has covered the JDK since 17 November 2006 is not a EULA (it's a distribution license) which explicitly states "Activities other than copying, distribution and modification are not covered by this License; they are outside its scope. The act of running the Program is not restricted ...". I'm still not seeing where the copyright violation is (unless it's something trivial in the documentation). You say: “Well, it is wrong. Wrong because Google did not copied Java – and actually never mention Java anywhere. In fact, the Android SDK produced Dalvik (not Java) bytecodes, and the decoding and execution pattern is quite different (and one of the reasons why older implementations of Dalvik were so slow – they were made to conserve memory bandwidth, that is quite limited in cell phone chipsets).”

Java is mentioned in the documentation but just as the “Java Programming Language” as in the name of the book that specifies it independently of the class libraries.

More importantly, I think part of the complication that many people have ignored (included yourself) is the toolchain used to build Android SDK “apps” does include the Sun/Oracle javac compiler.

The JDK must be installed to build Android applications.

The .class files output by the Sun javac compiler are then “translated” or “cross-compiled” by the dx application to Dalvik VM bytecodes in a .dex file which has the same functionality as a class file but the bytecode is Dalvik bytecode and the format is different. The Dalvik VM then executes those .dex files in the context of Google’s Apache Harmony derived class library (which of course is also in .dex form).

An important question is exactly where do Oracle see a copyright violation? Remember this part is not trademark or patent violations.

Is it in this toolchain? But Google doesn’t distribute the JDK so it’s not there.

Is it in the content output by javac that is then converted by dx? Does that mean that Oracle claims some copyright on the .class files any developer makes because they contain something included by the javac or it’s runtime? That seems like a very odd claim for a compiler especially a GPLed one (see below)

Does Oracle somehow believe that developers can’t manipulate the .class files that they generate with the JDK? How can they do that without a EULA or other contract which Google never signed. The GPL 2 which has covered the JDK since 17 November 2006 is not a EULA (it’s a distribution license) which explicitly states “Activities other than copying, distribution and modification are not covered by this License; they are outside its scope. The act of running the Program is not restricted …”.

I’m still not seeing where the copyright violation is (unless it’s something trivial in the documentation).

]]>
By: cdaffara http://carlodaffara.conecta.it/oraclegoogle-the-patents-and-the-implications/comment-page-1/#comment-14311 cdaffara Mon, 16 Aug 2010 18:10:28 +0000 http://carlodaffara.conecta.it/?p=478#comment-14311 In fact I was referring not to the J2SE patent grant, that does not apply to Android, but to the implicit patent license given when releasing OpenJDK. In fact I was referring not to the J2SE patent grant, that does not apply to Android, but to the implicit patent license given when releasing OpenJDK.

]]>